Comments on: The iPhone excitement and e-books: Pan Macmillan exec Sara Lloyd denies that publishers were cluelessly asleep http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/ News & views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:38:33 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: A lost chance by publishers? « Booklishing http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-855900 A lost chance by publishers? « Booklishing Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:30:18 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-855900 [...] publishers’ attitude. And then David Rothman, from Tele Read, shared his view on the matter here and [...] [...] publishers’ attitude. And then David Rothman, from Tele Read, shared his view on the matter here and [...]

]]> By: thedigitalist.net » links for 2008-07-18 http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-853380 thedigitalist.net » links for 2008-07-18 Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:31:19 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-853380 [...] The iPhone excitement and e-books: Pan Macmillan exec Sara Lloyd denies that publishers were clueles... Teleread riposte. (tags: iphone publishers) [...] [...] The iPhone excitement and e-books: Pan Macmillan exec Sara Lloyd denies that publishers were clueles… Teleread riposte. (tags: iphone publishers) [...]

]]> By: Rob Preece http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-852008 Rob Preece Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:12:16 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-852008 I think what Sara is saying about the Fictionwise discount is not so much about the percentage they collect out of the list price for books sold at list price (which is pretty much standard). Fictionwise, however, has a number of programs (i.e., their discounts on new releases and their discounts for frequent customers) which they impose. They pay pubishers based on their actual sale price rather than on publisher list price. I like Fictionwise, am very happy to be one of their publishers, and think that they provide a great service for small publishers--and for readers. As I offer standard introductory pricing on my eBooks, I also understand Fictionwise's business model in encouraging customers to return every week to see what's on sale. But I can certainly understand those who prefer a model (like Mobipocket's or All Romance eBooks) where publishers rather than the distributo set introductory and sale discounts, or where, (as with the Kindle store) the publisher receives the full percentage of list price even if the distributor decides on a mark-down. I think there is a lot of publisher interest in the Kindle because Amazon sought publisher interest. Maybe eReader/Fictionwise was sought out by Apple, but I certainly haven't heard of Apple outreaching to publishers. If they had, I certainly would have been in line. I'm a big believer in multiple platforms. I read on both dedicated and shared devices and I can see advantages to both. I certainly hope that Amazon does well with the Kindle and I enjoy the Kindle sales I make. I hope that Apple reaches a whole new group of readers--some of whom will stay with the iPhone for their reading and some of whom may migrate to a larger dedicated device. Rob Preece Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com I think what Sara is saying about the Fictionwise discount is not so much about the percentage they collect out of the list price for books sold at list price (which is pretty much standard). Fictionwise, however, has a number of programs (i.e., their discounts on new releases and their discounts for frequent customers) which they impose. They pay pubishers based on their actual sale price rather than on publisher list price.

I like Fictionwise, am very happy to be one of their publishers, and think that they provide a great service for small publishers–and for readers. As I offer standard introductory pricing on my eBooks, I also understand Fictionwise’s business model in encouraging customers to return every week to see what’s on sale. But I can certainly understand those who prefer a model (like Mobipocket’s or All Romance eBooks) where publishers rather than the distributo set introductory and sale discounts, or where, (as with the Kindle store) the publisher receives the full percentage of list price even if the distributor decides on a mark-down.

I think there is a lot of publisher interest in the Kindle because Amazon sought publisher interest. Maybe eReader/Fictionwise was sought out by Apple, but I certainly haven’t heard of Apple outreaching to publishers. If they had, I certainly would have been in line.

I’m a big believer in multiple platforms. I read on both dedicated and shared devices and I can see advantages to both. I certainly hope that Amazon does well with the Kindle and I enjoy the Kindle sales I make. I hope that Apple reaches a whole new group of readers–some of whom will stay with the iPhone for their reading and some of whom may migrate to a larger dedicated device.

Rob Preece
Publisher, http://www.BooksForABuck.com

]]> By: Mike Cane http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-851878 Mike Cane Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:14:09 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-851878 >>>I just think the discounts they demand essentially simply to hold and deliver a digital file are outrageous. Can it really be worse than the discounts for chain bookstores? (I am ignorant on this point.) Also, at what price do you intend to sell ebooks? Please avoid this self-defeating lunacy: http://ebooktest.blogspot.com/2008/07/edward-bunker.html >>>I just think the discounts they demand essentially simply to hold and deliver a digital file are outrageous.

Can it really be worse than the discounts for chain bookstores? (I am ignorant on this point.) Also, at what price do you intend to sell ebooks? Please avoid this self-defeating lunacy:
http://ebooktest.blogspot.com/2008/07/edward-bunker.html

]]> By: Mike Cane http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-851635 Mike Cane Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:05:58 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-851635 >>>I’m not sure Fictionwise is it [the platform] That's for sure! Publishers can count on lost sales from that fruitbat search engine! Hey, David, maybe it's time for *you* to start shoving in publishers' faces how many of their titles are up on Google Book Search for FREE FREE FREE. Meanwhile, people like me who want to *buy* are left empty-handed. http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/read-nathan-singer-like-a-thief/ >>>I’m not sure Fictionwise is it [the platform]

That’s for sure! Publishers can count on lost sales from that fruitbat search engine!

Hey, David, maybe it’s time for *you* to start shoving in publishers’ faces how many of their titles are up on Google Book Search for FREE FREE FREE. Meanwhile, people like me who want to *buy* are left empty-handed.
http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/read-nathan-singer-like-a-thief/

]]> By: Andy http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-851634 Andy Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:04:20 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-851634 From a technical point of view, the barrier to entry was (and is) fairly low for the iPhone. (I say that as a developer.) All they had to do was find a developer familiar with Mac OS X development (they must have someone like that somewhere in their organization if they do any software development) grab the (free) iPhone SDK, and do something simple. It wouldn't have to even be something to <b>read</b> books. Just to show that they noticed. Shoot - It could be a simple 'catalog' app that would let ordinary mortals browse their catalog (it must be online somewhere) and then (possibly) link them to an eBook vender (Fictionwise/whomever they prefer) to purchase/download it. (Okay, the purchase/download part wouldn't be that simple...) I can see how they might be leery of partnering with Apple for something like that (for reasons I'm sure are well trod ground around here). But you'll never get wet if you don't go near the water. From a technical point of view, the barrier to entry was (and is) fairly low for the iPhone. (I say that as a developer.)

All they had to do was find a developer familiar with Mac OS X development (they must have someone like that somewhere in their organization if they do any software development) grab the (free) iPhone SDK, and do something simple. It wouldn’t have to even be something to read books. Just to show that they noticed.

Shoot – It could be a simple ‘catalog’ app that would let ordinary mortals browse their catalog (it must be online somewhere) and then (possibly) link them to an eBook vender (Fictionwise/whomever they prefer) to purchase/download it. (Okay, the purchase/download part wouldn’t be that simple…)

I can see how they might be leery of partnering with Apple for something like that (for reasons I’m sure are well trod ground around here). But you’ll never get wet if you don’t go near the water.

]]> By: Sara Lloyd http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-851589 Sara Lloyd Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:55:29 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-851589 Since you asked for a response... many publishers, including Pan Macmillan, *are* preparing their books in .epub. We are also actively talking to agents and authors re the DRM debate and trying to educate them out of their paranoia. It's a long, slow job though and it is veeeeeeery time-consuming. At Pan Macmillan, we have taken this one step further, too, and have been actively seeking authors who will support non-drm'd ebooks. As a result, I think you'll find we're the only UK publishers who will have a small (but hopefully growing) list of drm-free ebooks by the end of this year. On today's count though, we still only have six books in this year's programme where we have been able to do this. This is *not* for want of trying. You wanted to know specifically what I meant about fictionwise - it's nothing to do with pricing or drm. I just think the discounts they demand essentially simply to hold and deliver a digital file are outrageous. Now, on the more general point that we could have all spent some time setting up relationships with the software developers to deliver our books for the iPhone. I would still suggest that this would have been (a) difficult for a very small department within a large publishing house and (b) quite possibly ultimately not a good use of our time. I think the better use of our time is still on the issues above. And there is still clearly quite a bit of shake-out to happen yet with the App Store, which frankly is a confusing mess right now. I don't want my books buried in that mess. But see my colleague James Long's more fully reasoned and somewhat wry response to Kassia's objections on my blog post on all this, today at http://thedigitalist.net/?p=190#comments for more on all this Since you asked for a response… many publishers, including Pan Macmillan, *are* preparing their books in .epub. We are also actively talking to agents and authors re the DRM debate and trying to educate them out of their paranoia. It’s a long, slow job though and it is veeeeeeery time-consuming. At Pan Macmillan, we have taken this one step further, too, and have been actively seeking authors who will support non-drm’d ebooks. As a result, I think you’ll find we’re the only UK publishers who will have a small (but hopefully growing) list of drm-free ebooks by the end of this year. On today’s count though, we still only have six books in this year’s programme where we have been able to do this. This is *not* for want of trying. You wanted to know specifically what I meant about fictionwise – it’s nothing to do with pricing or drm. I just think the discounts they demand essentially simply to hold and deliver a digital file are outrageous. Now, on the more general point that we could have all spent some time setting up relationships with the software developers to deliver our books for the iPhone. I would still suggest that this would have been (a) difficult for a very small department within a large publishing house and (b) quite possibly ultimately not a good use of our time. I think the better use of our time is still on the issues above. And there is still clearly quite a bit of shake-out to happen yet with the App Store, which frankly is a confusing mess right now. I don’t want my books buried in that mess. But see my colleague James Long’s more fully reasoned and somewhat wry response to Kassia’s objections on my blog post on all this, today at http://thedigitalist.net/?p=190#comments for more on all this

]]> By: David Rothman http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-851506 David Rothman Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:03:23 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-851506 Thanks, Dan, but that's just part of the picture. Feedbooks enjoyed an instant spike, and I suspect that the number will grow over time as more people catch on. Remember, the Stanza program is new. And Apple itself has yet to get behind e-books. Just wait until that happens, as it will in time. Meanwhile the eReader server distributing commercial books is swamped. Single-handedly the iPhone may not do the job, just as the Kindle can't on its own, but if publishers use ePub and avoid DRM, then the extra costs of each new device aren't going to be that much. We would be talking more about new marketing opportunities than about the costs of keeping up with hardware and eBabel. Ideally iPhones and others will come with terrific reading apps installed, as well as sample e-books. If Apple won't oblige, then other vendors will, inevitably. Meanwhile the iPHone serves as an example of the possibilities. <em>Bottom line:</em> While there's no guarantee that the iPhone will turn e-books into a mass phenomenon, publishers should have been much better prepared for it. Thanks, David Thanks, Dan, but that’s just part of the picture. Feedbooks enjoyed an instant spike, and I suspect that the number will grow over time as more people catch on. Remember, the Stanza program is new. And Apple itself has yet to get behind e-books. Just wait until that happens, as it will in time.

Meanwhile the eReader server distributing commercial books is swamped.

Single-handedly the iPhone may not do the job, just as the Kindle can’t on its own, but if publishers use ePub and avoid DRM, then the extra costs of each new device aren’t going to be that much.

We would be talking more about new marketing opportunities than about the costs of keeping up with hardware and eBabel.

Ideally iPhones and others will come with terrific reading apps installed, as well as sample e-books. If Apple won’t oblige, then other vendors will, inevitably. Meanwhile the iPHone serves as an example of the possibilities.

Bottom line: While there’s no guarantee that the iPhone will turn e-books into a mass phenomenon, publishers should have been much better prepared for it.

Thanks,
David

]]> By: Daniel Udsen http://www.teleread.org/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-851449 Daniel Udsen Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:43:14 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/07/15/the-ipod-excitement-and-e-books-pan-macmillan-exec-sara-lloyd-denies-that-publishers-were-cluelessly-asleep/#comment-851449 A million moved iphones 10.000 moved public domain titles that amounts to a potential sale of what 1000 titles, yeah the publishers should have dropped all what they were doing and invested millions. Sorry guys it dont work like that you dont have "the big one" the iPhone is not going to be the gizmo that single handedly makes ebooks a massively profitable venture. And this is the eternal problem, people dont just read commersially viable stuff on their multifunction devices. A million moved iphones 10.000 moved public domain titles that amounts to a potential sale of what 1000 titles, yeah the publishers should have dropped all what they were doing and invested millions.

Sorry guys it dont work like that you dont have “the big one” the iPhone is not going to be the gizmo that single handedly makes ebooks a massively profitable venture. And this is the eternal problem, people dont just read commersially viable stuff on their multifunction devices.

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