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	<title>Comments on: Fictionwise&#8217;s Micropay vs. eReader&#8217;s new Rewards Dollars</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/</link>
	<description>News &#38; views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Meadows</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-915123</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Meadows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-915123</guid>
		<description>Apparently the reason they can&#039;t has to do with contractual obligations with the publishers. Whatever it is, it would be nice if they&#039;d get it sorted out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the reason they can&#8217;t has to do with contractual obligations with the publishers. Whatever it is, it would be nice if they&#8217;d get it sorted out.</p>
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		<title>By: ficbot</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-915075</link>
		<dc:creator>ficbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-915075</guid>
		<description>If you buy a multiformat title, you can download it again in any format you choose. It is only with the &#039;secure&#039; titles that you cannot. I feel okay with buying something like secure ereader because the doc format has been around for awhile and is the most popular. Plus the DRM scheme is not very intrusive. I look at this way: either I pay $10 for a second-hand dead tree edition and then get two bucks back for selling it to the used bookstore because I don&#039;t have the space to keep them, or I can pay $7 for an ebook version and not have the space issue, so keep it. Even if it only lasts five years, that&#039;s still more use than I would have had over the paper one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you buy a multiformat title, you can download it again in any format you choose. It is only with the &#8217;secure&#8217; titles that you cannot. I feel okay with buying something like secure ereader because the doc format has been around for awhile and is the most popular. Plus the DRM scheme is not very intrusive. I look at this way: either I pay $10 for a second-hand dead tree edition and then get two bucks back for selling it to the used bookstore because I don&#8217;t have the space to keep them, or I can pay $7 for an ebook version and not have the space issue, so keep it. Even if it only lasts five years, that&#8217;s still more use than I would have had over the paper one.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Kiesche</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-915055</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Kiesche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-915055</guid>
		<description>&quot;Also Fred Kiesche, Fictionwise does offer multi-format unencrypted eBooks whenever the publishers will let them. I know the vast majority of my purchases have come that way.&quot;

I&#039;m aware of that. And I have bought a bunch that way. My problem is with the books that I purchased in the past in one format (eReader)...which are now available in other formats. Instead of offering me the chance of downloading in another format, I need to purchase it **again** in the format I now use.

And what of all my purchases via Palm/Peanut/Whatever you call it this week? All in eReader...all useless to me.

And peopel wonder why eBooks aren&#039;t taking off. If deadtree editions were this much trouble, they wouldn&#039;t have taken off after Gutenberg&#039;s first edition of The Bible!

I know the problem is less with Fictionwise than with the publishers who provide the books (and set the conditions), but I&#039;m amazed that they don&#039;t seem to have a clue.

(Let&#039;s not even get started on hardcover prices for eBooks that have been in paperback...for months to years!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Also Fred Kiesche, Fictionwise does offer multi-format unencrypted eBooks whenever the publishers will let them. I know the vast majority of my purchases have come that way.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m aware of that. And I have bought a bunch that way. My problem is with the books that I purchased in the past in one format (eReader)&#8230;which are now available in other formats. Instead of offering me the chance of downloading in another format, I need to purchase it **again** in the format I now use.</p>
<p>And what of all my purchases via Palm/Peanut/Whatever you call it this week? All in eReader&#8230;all useless to me.</p>
<p>And peopel wonder why eBooks aren&#8217;t taking off. If deadtree editions were this much trouble, they wouldn&#8217;t have taken off after Gutenberg&#8217;s first edition of The Bible!</p>
<p>I know the problem is less with Fictionwise than with the publishers who provide the books (and set the conditions), but I&#8217;m amazed that they don&#8217;t seem to have a clue.</p>
<p>(Let&#8217;s not even get started on hardcover prices for eBooks that have been in paperback&#8230;for months to years!)</p>
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		<title>By: Kaolin Fire (GUD Magazine)</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913998</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaolin Fire (GUD Magazine)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913998</guid>
		<description>Oh, sorry--I swear I read they couldn&#039;t, but maybe that was 1.0...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, sorry&#8211;I swear I read they couldn&#8217;t, but maybe that was 1.0&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Meadows</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913994</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Meadows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913994</guid>
		<description>Kaolin: I&#039;m not sure what you mean. eReader on the iPod Touch/iPhone can read encrypted eReader books just fine.

It&#039;s just that there&#039;s no reader for encrypted Mobipocket files yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaolin: I&#8217;m not sure what you mean. eReader on the iPod Touch/iPhone can read encrypted eReader books just fine.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just that there&#8217;s no reader for encrypted Mobipocket files yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913983</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913983</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have a problem with the Fictionwise system:  I can see what my card&#039;s getting charged and that&#039;s what matters.  Besides, I can just spend all the micropay in another transaction right after the first.  It&#039;s easy enough for me-- but that might be how my brain is wired.

Also Fred Kiesche, Fictionwise does offer multi-format unencrypted eBooks whenever the publishers will let them.  I know the vast majority of my purchases have come that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with the Fictionwise system:  I can see what my card&#8217;s getting charged and that&#8217;s what matters.  Besides, I can just spend all the micropay in another transaction right after the first.  It&#8217;s easy enough for me&#8211; but that might be how my brain is wired.</p>
<p>Also Fred Kiesche, Fictionwise does offer multi-format unencrypted eBooks whenever the publishers will let them.  I know the vast majority of my purchases have come that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaolin Fire (GUD Magazine)</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913965</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaolin Fire (GUD Magazine)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 01:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913965</guid>
		<description>@Fred - as far as formats, it&#039;s up to the individual publishers to decide that (at least for Fictionwise, and I would presume for eReader as well).  Some are more worried about DRM than others.  GUD believes in &quot;conscientious sharing&quot;. :)

As for the iPhone, I&#039;m pretty sure I read that eReader is working as fast as they can to get DRM elements integrated into their app so that folks can read the books they&#039;ve bought that are so protected.  Hopefully that will come with 1.3?  I&#039;ve only ever bought multiformat from them, though.

As for whether the &quot;deals&quot; are confusing--I hadn&#039;t thought they were, but I also hadn&#039;t paid much attention to them. :)

It&#039;s also very cool to hear that the micropay is refundable--I hadn&#039;t looked into that, but had expected it to not be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fred &#8211; as far as formats, it&#8217;s up to the individual publishers to decide that (at least for Fictionwise, and I would presume for eReader as well).  Some are more worried about DRM than others.  GUD believes in &#8220;conscientious sharing&#8221;. <img src='http://www.teleread.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for the iPhone, I&#8217;m pretty sure I read that eReader is working as fast as they can to get DRM elements integrated into their app so that folks can read the books they&#8217;ve bought that are so protected.  Hopefully that will come with 1.3?  I&#8217;ve only ever bought multiformat from them, though.</p>
<p>As for whether the &#8220;deals&#8221; are confusing&#8211;I hadn&#8217;t thought they were, but I also hadn&#8217;t paid much attention to them. <img src='http://www.teleread.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also very cool to hear that the micropay is refundable&#8211;I hadn&#8217;t looked into that, but had expected it to not be.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Meadows</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913777</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Meadows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913777</guid>
		<description>Fred: I have the same problem, though in the opposite format. I bought the four Kitty Norville books from Fictionwise (with micropay money) and three of the four are only available in Secure Mobipocket format instead of the eReader I need for (legal) iPhone reading. (Ironically, I could have bought all four of them in eReader format from eReader.com, but my micropay money was on the Fictionwise side.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred: I have the same problem, though in the opposite format. I bought the four Kitty Norville books from Fictionwise (with micropay money) and three of the four are only available in Secure Mobipocket format instead of the eReader I need for (legal) iPhone reading. (Ironically, I could have bought all four of them in eReader format from eReader.com, but my micropay money was on the Fictionwise side.)</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Kiesche</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913732</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Kiesche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913732</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not too concerned about either reward/award system...what I&#039;d like to see is for both companies to offer their titles in multiple formats (unencrypted would be ideal, but something relatively unobtrusive like &quot;secure Mobipocket&quot; can be lived with). I hate the fact that I&#039;ve bought eReader titles in the past and if I want to keep reading them (since my current reader does not support eReader format), I have to buy them again in Mobipocket!

Hey, Steve, I&#039;ll buy more books from you folks (in the future) if I have better access to the books I&#039;ve already bought!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not too concerned about either reward/award system&#8230;what I&#8217;d like to see is for both companies to offer their titles in multiple formats (unencrypted would be ideal, but something relatively unobtrusive like &#8220;secure Mobipocket&#8221; can be lived with). I hate the fact that I&#8217;ve bought eReader titles in the past and if I want to keep reading them (since my current reader does not support eReader format), I have to buy them again in Mobipocket!</p>
<p>Hey, Steve, I&#8217;ll buy more books from you folks (in the future) if I have better access to the books I&#8217;ve already bought!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Meadows</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913562</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Meadows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913562</guid>
		<description>David: Thanks for catching that; fixed it.

Steve: Thanks for your explanation. I suppose no matter what you do, someone will find it too confusing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David: Thanks for catching that; fixed it.</p>
<p>Steve: Thanks for your explanation. I suppose no matter what you do, someone will find it too confusing.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve P.</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913551</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913551</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris,

Thanks for a well-balanced article. I want to explain some of our thought processes in implementing this system.

Based on our customer&#039;s comments, your opinion that the weekly coupon was &quot;simple&quot; is not shared by quite a few customers. We have been receiving customer support tickets since we acquired eReader from customers telling us they dislike the weekly coupons (in some cases in extremely emphatic terms). 

The weekly coupons also made it very difficult for us to run any kind of sensible promotions for individual books without having to do a lot of explanations. This resulted in complicated wording on many of our special promotions like &quot;40% Off (including 10% weekly coupon and a special discount)&quot;. Again, this resulted in customer supports when people could not figure out what things like that meant. That is a direct result of having a weekly coupon. The weekly coupon was not at all simple in the minds of many customers.

This Rewards system will allow us a lot of additional flexibility and will lead to much lower prices for regular customers. We will be able to do on eReader very special promotions like 100% Rewards ebooks in the near future. That was not possible using the coupon system.

I do understand the view that there is always some amount of money being held for the next purchase. Therefore, the benefit accrues mostly to regular customers and not one-time customers. All I can say is: yes, this is a loyalty program. That&#039;s why it&#039;s called &quot;Rewards&quot;. We&#039;re Rewarding repeat buyers. Loyal customers get much bigger benefits under this program than the 10% coupon.

The philosophical question is: should a retailer design their discounts to reward one-time buyers, or should they design their system to reward repeat buyers? About 90% of the sales on our sites are repeat buyers. You can do the math and come to your own conclusions, but there is no question in my mind that we&#039;re doing the right thing here.

The eReader Rewards system was designed to be far simpler than the Fictionwise Micropay Rebates system which we agree is too complicated. In the eReader Rewards system there is no need to choose a payment type, the rewards dollars just get automatically deducted. There are no promotions that depend on choosing a particular payment type. There are no clubs to join, no dues to pay, everyone gets the same deal. Pretty simple.

-Steve P.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>Thanks for a well-balanced article. I want to explain some of our thought processes in implementing this system.</p>
<p>Based on our customer&#8217;s comments, your opinion that the weekly coupon was &#8220;simple&#8221; is not shared by quite a few customers. We have been receiving customer support tickets since we acquired eReader from customers telling us they dislike the weekly coupons (in some cases in extremely emphatic terms). </p>
<p>The weekly coupons also made it very difficult for us to run any kind of sensible promotions for individual books without having to do a lot of explanations. This resulted in complicated wording on many of our special promotions like &#8220;40% Off (including 10% weekly coupon and a special discount)&#8221;. Again, this resulted in customer supports when people could not figure out what things like that meant. That is a direct result of having a weekly coupon. The weekly coupon was not at all simple in the minds of many customers.</p>
<p>This Rewards system will allow us a lot of additional flexibility and will lead to much lower prices for regular customers. We will be able to do on eReader very special promotions like 100% Rewards ebooks in the near future. That was not possible using the coupon system.</p>
<p>I do understand the view that there is always some amount of money being held for the next purchase. Therefore, the benefit accrues mostly to regular customers and not one-time customers. All I can say is: yes, this is a loyalty program. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s called &#8220;Rewards&#8221;. We&#8217;re Rewarding repeat buyers. Loyal customers get much bigger benefits under this program than the 10% coupon.</p>
<p>The philosophical question is: should a retailer design their discounts to reward one-time buyers, or should they design their system to reward repeat buyers? About 90% of the sales on our sites are repeat buyers. You can do the math and come to your own conclusions, but there is no question in my mind that we&#8217;re doing the right thing here.</p>
<p>The eReader Rewards system was designed to be far simpler than the Fictionwise Micropay Rebates system which we agree is too complicated. In the eReader Rewards system there is no need to choose a payment type, the rewards dollars just get automatically deducted. There are no promotions that depend on choosing a particular payment type. There are no clubs to join, no dues to pay, everyone gets the same deal. Pretty simple.</p>
<p>-Steve P.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Adin</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913546</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Adin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913546</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;ve noted before, I find the Fictionwise system too difficult and confusing. I much prefer a straight discount program. I am a member of B&amp;N&#039;s discount club for pbooks because it is easy to use; consequently, I buy 95% of my pbooks from B&amp;N.

My ebooks I buy from Sony or Baen. I wait for Sony to run a coupon special and then use that for purchases. Even though I pay more (or seem to) at Sony than I would at Fictionwise, I like the pricing ease of understanding that I get at Sony.

When Fictionwise ran its 100% rebate on membership a couple of weeks ago, I almost joined, especially after reading comments from others who love buying from Fictionwise. But in the end I didn&#039;t because I just find the system too confusing.

I know I&#039;m probably in the minority in this regard, but I&#039;m also certain I&#039;m not the only ebook buyer who doesn&#039;t buy from Fictinwise because of the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;ve noted before, I find the Fictionwise system too difficult and confusing. I much prefer a straight discount program. I am a member of B&amp;N&#8217;s discount club for pbooks because it is easy to use; consequently, I buy 95% of my pbooks from B&amp;N.</p>
<p>My ebooks I buy from Sony or Baen. I wait for Sony to run a coupon special and then use that for purchases. Even though I pay more (or seem to) at Sony than I would at Fictionwise, I like the pricing ease of understanding that I get at Sony.</p>
<p>When Fictionwise ran its 100% rebate on membership a couple of weeks ago, I almost joined, especially after reading comments from others who love buying from Fictionwise. But in the end I didn&#8217;t because I just find the system too confusing.</p>
<p>I know I&#8217;m probably in the minority in this regard, but I&#8217;m also certain I&#8217;m not the only ebook buyer who doesn&#8217;t buy from Fictinwise because of the system.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913442</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913442</guid>
		<description>I have to correct you on a detail : Micropay money IS refundable ; it&#039;s even said in the very FAQ you linked (&quot;If I decide I no longer want to buy eBooks from Fictionwise, can I get my account money back? Sure! Send an email to support@fictionwise.com and tell us your login id and email address, and ask us for a refund. We&#039;ll get it out to you within 60 days.&quot;)

In fact, I recently asked for a refund because I had a lot of money and I wanted to use it on eReader.com purchases instead of Fictionwise.com, and they did it, fast enough. Only a small amount was not refunded, that I earned by registering to the Buywise club (it was the &quot;100% micropay rebate&quot; campaign, a feww days ago).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to correct you on a detail : Micropay money IS refundable ; it&#8217;s even said in the very FAQ you linked (&#8221;If I decide I no longer want to buy eBooks from Fictionwise, can I get my account money back? Sure! Send an email to <a href="mailto:support@fictionwise.com">support@fictionwise.com</a> and tell us your login id and email address, and ask us for a refund. We&#8217;ll get it out to you within 60 days.&#8221;)</p>
<p>In fact, I recently asked for a refund because I had a lot of money and I wanted to use it on eReader.com purchases instead of Fictionwise.com, and they did it, fast enough. Only a small amount was not refunded, that I earned by registering to the Buywise club (it was the &#8220;100% micropay rebate&#8221; campaign, a feww days ago).</p>
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		<title>By: Christo</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-913418</link>
		<dc:creator>Christo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2008/09/24/fictionwises-micropay-vs-ereaders-new-rewards-dollars/#comment-913418</guid>
		<description>I have been a member of Fictionwise&#039;s club for many years and the only confusing bit about the scheme is knowing exactly how much a title really cost you. But the amount that is shown as Cost After Rebate is pretty close in the long run. In any case since for most titles there are not that many alternative stores the decision to buy the book is not dictated (for me) by the exact cost, but whether I want the book, and whether the approximate price shown is acceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been a member of Fictionwise&#8217;s club for many years and the only confusing bit about the scheme is knowing exactly how much a title really cost you. But the amount that is shown as Cost After Rebate is pretty close in the long run. In any case since for most titles there are not that many alternative stores the decision to buy the book is not dictated (for me) by the exact cost, but whether I want the book, and whether the approximate price shown is acceptable.</p>
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