Comments on: ‘The Power of Social Reading’: Success story from rural New York school district http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/ News & views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:37:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: David Rothman http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397226 David Rothman Tue, 05 Jun 2007 19:03:37 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397226 I love the built-in editor idea, Tamas, but when I tried it, the thing just wasn't ready for a typical user. I agree that binding resources could be nice. With Google Docs, it won't be as easy to create annotations on the fly--if you're offline. :-) Totally agree re the border observation. With dotReader-style stuff, at least the lines are clear. Not so perhaps with Google Docs. This means a LOT to publishers and writers. Books are not Web 2.0. Thanks. David I love the built-in editor idea, Tamas, but when I tried it, the thing just wasn’t ready for a typical user. I agree that binding resources could be nice. With Google Docs, it won’t be as easy to create annotations on the fly–if you’re offline. :-) Totally agree re the border observation. With dotReader-style stuff, at least the lines are clear. Not so perhaps with Google Docs. This means a LOT to publishers and writers. Books are not Web 2.0. Thanks. David

]]> By: Tamas Simon http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397221 Tamas Simon Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:54:04 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397221 Sophie readable books can be created with... err... Sophie Sophie works in editor mode and reader mode - something that none of the other apps have - a built in editor mode! According to their mailing list they will create a standalone reader application that cannot do editing - much like Acrobat Reader - but you'll still have the option to get the editor/viewer combo. However, the strength of Sophie is in binding resources together, so I'd expect the text documents to come from just about anywhere. There are lots of ways to create RTF documents... <i>"Google Docs is a collaborative content creation tool, but that’s as far, far cry from an e-book reader with annotation capabilities for use in everyday reading."</i> Is it? Not if I could use it on a tablet... The ideal ebook reader would be a tablet that you can write on and would then use text recognition to process your notes and send them electronically to others. I think you raised an interesting question though: <b>Where is the borderline between note taking, annotation and collaborative authoring?</b> Sophie readable books can be created with… err…
Sophie
Sophie works in editor mode and reader mode - something that none of the other apps have - a built in editor mode!
According to their mailing list they will create a standalone reader application that cannot do editing - much like Acrobat Reader - but you’ll still have the option to get the editor/viewer combo.
However, the strength of Sophie is in binding resources together, so I’d expect the text documents to come from just about anywhere. There are lots of ways to create RTF documents…

“Google Docs is a collaborative content creation tool, but that’s as far, far cry from an e-book reader with annotation capabilities for use in everyday reading.”
Is it? Not if I could use it on a tablet…

The ideal ebook reader would be a tablet that you can write on and would then use text recognition to process your notes and send them electronically to others.

I think you raised an interesting question though: Where is the borderline between note taking, annotation and collaborative authoring?

]]> By: David Rothman http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397201 David Rothman Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:32:46 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397201 dotReader-readable books can be created via a Drupal module if nothing else, as you yourself note. Sophie? I'm rooting for it along with others options for e-book-lovers, but based on my experience a few weeks ago with the beta, Tamas, I think you're being optimistic. If they've made progress since then, I'll be very happy! Google Docs is a collaborative content creation tool, but that's as far, far cry from an e-book reader with annotation capabilities for use in everyday reading. As for Digital Editions, the new Adobe reader, Adobe is talking about including ads in the free version. Hey, keep commenting, Tamas. This is useful stuff. Anyone out there who can verify your statement that the IDPF specs even now lacks annotation capabilities? This is a valuable find. Hello, Jon N? What gives? - David dotReader-readable books can be created via a Drupal module if nothing else, as you yourself note. Sophie? I’m rooting for it along with others options for e-book-lovers, but based on my experience a few weeks ago with the beta, Tamas, I think you’re being optimistic. If they’ve made progress since then, I’ll be very happy! Google Docs is a collaborative content creation tool, but that’s as far, far cry from an e-book reader with annotation capabilities for use in everyday reading. As for Digital Editions, the new Adobe reader, Adobe is talking about including ads in the free version. Hey, keep commenting, Tamas. This is useful stuff. Anyone out there who can verify your statement that the IDPF specs even now lacks annotation capabilities? This is a valuable find. Hello, Jon N? What gives? - David

]]> By: Tamas Simon http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397182 Tamas Simon Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:08:45 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397182 Excuse me... I have to strongly disagree about your comparision of Sophie, dotReader and Adobe PDF. dotReader content creation is non-existent. Their module only packages what Drupal's built in book creation module spits out. And that module is far from perfect. You're better off using <a href="http://docs.google.com" rel="nofollow">Google Docs</a> or <a href="www.thinkfree.com" rel="nofollow">ThinkFree</a> for collaborative web-based authoring, saving the files in RTF format and using Sophie to bind stuff together. Sophie is much further along than dotReader. It's getting ready for the first release this summer. It has ideas and ease of use that dotReader does not have. It's a subjective personal opinion of course but I have to say dotReader is just ugly as hell whereas Sophie has some great ideas and is just way better. Just think about how easy it will be to pull text, images and video together to provide a "next generation reading experience" and then host the whole thing on the web as a networked book. PDF is an ISO standard - unlike the IDPF glorified HTML and Zip files it has great implementations - and there are free, open source reader implementations - not that it matters to a school to have the source code IMO. The Acrobat Reader is free (as in beer) and has great collaboration features. Oh... and Google Docs can save in PDF format too. <b>conclusion:</b> The value in dotReader's content creation module is zero If you need web based collaborative authoring tool use Google Docs. Save the document on Google Docs in either PDF, HTML or RTF depending on the reader software/platform Excuse me… I have to strongly disagree about your comparision of Sophie, dotReader and Adobe PDF.

dotReader content creation is non-existent. Their module only packages what Drupal’s built in book creation module spits out. And that module is far from perfect.

You’re better off using Google Docs or ThinkFree for collaborative web-based authoring, saving the files in RTF format and using Sophie to bind stuff together.

Sophie is much further along than dotReader. It’s getting ready for the first release this summer. It has ideas and ease of use that dotReader does not have.
It’s a subjective personal opinion of course but I have to say dotReader is just ugly as hell whereas Sophie has some great ideas and is just way better.
Just think about how easy it will be to pull text, images and video together to provide a “next generation reading experience” and then host the whole thing on the web as a networked book.

PDF is an ISO standard - unlike the IDPF glorified HTML and Zip files it has great implementations - and there are free, open source reader implementations - not that it matters to a school to have the source code IMO. The Acrobat Reader is free (as in beer) and has great collaboration features.
Oh… and Google Docs can save in PDF format too.

conclusion:

The value in dotReader’s content creation module is zero
If you need web based collaborative authoring tool use Google Docs.
Save the document on Google Docs in either PDF, HTML or RTF depending on the reader software/platform

]]> By: David Rothman http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397163 David Rothman Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:40:36 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397163 The others support annotations, Tamas, but dotReader works with Drupal-based creation tools---the reason I focused on it. Sophie and Adobe have their own advantages in various situations. But (1) Sophie isn't as far along as dotReader (even though dotReader isn't there yet either). (2) Adobe software isn't open source, which I suspect is Chris's preference. Great observation re the IDPF standard. Major flaw! And this on top of lack of certainty over whether there'll be DRM interoperability in the near future! One more reason for Jon Noring to comment on the IDPF standard. OpenReader was supposed to watch out for such things. Agree with you on the limits of local sites. But I suspect they're more interested in local interaction right now. Best approach would be options. Thanks, David The others support annotations, Tamas, but dotReader works with Drupal-based creation tools—the reason I focused on it. Sophie and Adobe have their own advantages in various situations. But (1) Sophie isn’t as far along as dotReader (even though dotReader isn’t there yet either). (2) Adobe software isn’t open source, which I suspect is Chris’s preference.

Great observation re the IDPF standard. Major flaw! And this on top of lack of certainty over whether there’ll be DRM interoperability in the near future! One more reason for Jon Noring to comment on the IDPF standard. OpenReader was supposed to watch out for such things.

Agree with you on the limits of local sites. But I suspect they’re more interested in local interaction right now. Best approach would be options.

Thanks,
David

]]> By: Tamas Simon http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397153 Tamas Simon Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:23:23 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397153 Hi David! re: comments in books this feature is appearing in most reading platforms, not only dotReader. Sophie and Adobe PDF also supports this feature. Unfortunatelly this is something that the IDPF failed to standardize in their new .epub standard. :( re:control Bigger sites can provide ways to form smaller groups. I don't know if any book review site does this... Though I understand the ease and the benefits of setting up a small independent review site - in this case for educational puposes - I think isolation is not the way to go. Maybe microformats (which if I remember corretly the book-review module supports) and one day semantic web can provide seemless integration of these kind of "islands of information". Hi David!

re: comments in books
this feature is appearing in most reading platforms, not only dotReader.
Sophie and Adobe PDF also supports this feature.
Unfortunatelly this is something that the IDPF failed to standardize in their new .epub standard. :(

re:control
Bigger sites can provide ways to form smaller groups.
I don’t know if any book review site does this…
Though I understand the ease and the benefits of setting up a small independent review site - in this case for educational puposes - I think isolation is not the way to go.
Maybe microformats (which if I remember corretly the book-review module supports) and one day semantic web can provide seemless integration of these kind of “islands of information”.

]]> By: David Rothman http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397137 David Rothman Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:46:36 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397137 Hi, Tamas. Never said the dotReader creation module and the review module were the same. dotReader is significant in that you can embed comments in books. I'll tweak the post to include that directly, in case others are confused. As for a central review site, the district probably wanted local control---in terms of which reviews the kids could see; that's my guess. The idea is to keep things local. Thanks. David Hi, Tamas. Never said the dotReader creation module and the review module were the same. dotReader is significant in that you can embed comments in books. I’ll tweak the post to include that directly, in case others are confused. As for a central review site, the district probably wanted local control—in terms of which reviews the kids could see; that’s my guess. The idea is to keep things local. Thanks. David

]]> By: Tamas Simon http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/06/05/the-power-of-social-reading-success-story-from-rural-new-york/comment-page-1/#comment-397101 Tamas Simon Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:36:08 +0000 http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=6658#comment-397101 It would be interesting to know why the school decided setting up their own site versus using some already available book review site? Is that the sense of control and ownership? Would there be benefits of rather joining a bigger site - such as discovering new books and "reading pals"? clarification: the Drupal book review module is totally different from the dotReader export module. The latter is useful if you are using Drupal's collaborative book authoring module (pretty close to a wiki) and want to export the book into dotReader format. It would be interesting to know why the school decided setting up their own site versus using some already available book review site?
Is that the sense of control and ownership?

Would there be benefits of rather joining a bigger site - such as discovering new books and “reading pals”?

clarification:
the Drupal book review module is totally different from the dotReader export module. The latter is useful if you are using Drupal’s collaborative book authoring module (pretty close to a wiki) and want to export the book into dotReader format.

]]>