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	<title>Comments on: Adobe-Amazon DRM snafu shows need for librarians to help e-stores to back up &#8216;protected&#8217; books</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/</link>
	<description>News &#38; views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David Rothman</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-645120</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rothman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-645120</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth: I'm gloomy, too, at least for now---the reason I've suggested the archive idea as a compromise even though some and perhaps many publishers will object to that as well. But who knows? For competitive reasons, even the real die-hards might go along eventually. Remember my logo idea? It'll let consumers know who's sensitive. What's more, maybe there's hope from the decline of DRM in music world. My idea at least would allow DRM. And meanwhile, as an enlightened publisher who understands consumers, enjoy the advantage you have. Happiest of holidays. David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth: I&#8217;m gloomy, too, at least for now&#8212;the reason I&#8217;ve suggested the archive idea as a compromise even though some and perhaps many publishers will object to that as well. But who knows? For competitive reasons, even the real die-hards might go along eventually. Remember my logo idea? It&#8217;ll let consumers know who&#8217;s sensitive. What&#8217;s more, maybe there&#8217;s hope from the decline of DRM in music world. My idea at least would allow DRM. And meanwhile, as an enlightened publisher who understands consumers, enjoy the advantage you have. Happiest of holidays. David</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Burton</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-645057</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Burton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-645057</guid>
		<description>I wouldn't hold my breath, David. I hang out on several forums for publishers, and there is a hard core of individuals who are so obsessed with wringing every penny out of their copyrights that they firmly believe ebooks should be treated like software.

In other words, they consider it perfectly fine that the purchaser of an ebook be considered as having purchased not the book but a license to use same. They have no problem whatever with requiring that same individual to purchase a new copy if their computer crashes and the original file is lost, or should the original seller go belly-up and that version no longer be available. In short, the consumer should be required to "upgrade," and pay full price for the privilege.

I suspect that if you were to poll the hold-out publishers who demand draconian DRM, you'd discover that's their attitude in a nutshell, and I assure you they will NOT change their minds. It's all about "what's mine is mine and if you want to have it you have to pay me," and no amount of logic or common sense or statistics about how the Internet is changing the way consumers perceive THEIR rights makes a dent.

They will adapt to less stringent protection methods only when they discover their competition is killing them on ebook sales.

Like I said--keep breathing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t hold my breath, David. I hang out on several forums for publishers, and there is a hard core of individuals who are so obsessed with wringing every penny out of their copyrights that they firmly believe ebooks should be treated like software.</p>
<p>In other words, they consider it perfectly fine that the purchaser of an ebook be considered as having purchased not the book but a license to use same. They have no problem whatever with requiring that same individual to purchase a new copy if their computer crashes and the original file is lost, or should the original seller go belly-up and that version no longer be available. In short, the consumer should be required to &#8220;upgrade,&#8221; and pay full price for the privilege.</p>
<p>I suspect that if you were to poll the hold-out publishers who demand draconian DRM, you&#8217;d discover that&#8217;s their attitude in a nutshell, and I assure you they will NOT change their minds. It&#8217;s all about &#8220;what&#8217;s mine is mine and if you want to have it you have to pay me,&#8221; and no amount of logic or common sense or statistics about how the Internet is changing the way consumers perceive THEIR rights makes a dent.</p>
<p>They will adapt to less stringent protection methods only when they discover their competition is killing them on ebook sales.</p>
<p>Like I said&#8211;keep breathing.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rothman</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644794</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rothman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644794</guid>
		<description>Good question, Sherman, and thanks for the link to the thread where people are talking about a lawsuit against Adobe.

I can't read Amazon's mind, but, yes, legal as well as marketing reasons could be at work here. Maybe. One other reason could be that some technophobic customers won't mess with a memory card and will delete titles past the 200 limit or whatever it is. Happy holidays. David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question, Sherman, and thanks for the link to the thread where people are talking about a lawsuit against Adobe.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t read Amazon&#8217;s mind, but, yes, legal as well as marketing reasons could be at work here. Maybe. One other reason could be that some technophobic customers won&#8217;t mess with a memory card and will delete titles past the 200 limit or whatever it is. Happy holidays. David</p>
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		<title>By: Sherman Dorn</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644629</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherman Dorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644629</guid>
		<description>David,

I wonder if the promise to have books available for re-downloading from the Amazon site is a way to simultaneously satisfy customers and also avoid FTC complaints or &lt;a href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3bc4a07a/8" rel="nofollow"&gt;lawsuits&lt;/a&gt; that might stem from problems such as Harrie Frericks's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I wonder if the promise to have books available for re-downloading from the Amazon site is a way to simultaneously satisfy customers and also avoid FTC complaints or <a href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3bc4a07a/8" rel="nofollow">lawsuits</a> that might stem from problems such as Harrie Frericks&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rothman</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644347</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rothman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644347</guid>
		<description>Greg and Mike...

Well, as I've said, the best solution BY FAR is no DRM or social DRM. Keep speaking up!

Meanwhile the plan I've proposed would make it easier to update people  when formats changed. Ideally .epub will be around a LONG time. But like Greg, I believe that no format is forever.

Happy holidays,
David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg and Mike&#8230;</p>
<p>Well, as I&#8217;ve said, the best solution BY FAR is no DRM or social DRM. Keep speaking up!</p>
<p>Meanwhile the plan I&#8217;ve proposed would make it easier to update people  when formats changed. Ideally .epub will be around a LONG time. But like Greg, I believe that no format is forever.</p>
<p>Happy holidays,<br />
David</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Schofield</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644321</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Schofield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644321</guid>
		<description>It just doesn't work, nor can it be made to work in the long term.

Look at the work around, a world wide identification system. Just to ensure that something I already purchased and possessed will still be usable in the future.

Along with identifying every customer, every work that is DRMed will not only have to be preserved (a good thing) but also its particular method of DRMing, plus some kind of crack/master key for each and every work, despite how technology may change.

Open formats can be translated. Perhaps in the future PDF and every other format will be deemed archaic. Whoops there goes all the DRMed ebooks. 

It just might be me, but I see the digital world on the brink of another revolution in technology, how long can we give any scheme of DRMing? Five years, perhaps ten, is there anyone silly enough to propose that it is at all likely that in fifty years time that anyone will be using even remotely similar software? Or that many of the current publishers will still be in business? 

And what in the meantime will be the increase in ebook publication, and if current trends persist even for a few years, how many of them will be locked away in DRM schemes no longer supported?

One aspect of my opposition to DRMing literature is that it is so shortsighted, technologically speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just doesn&#8217;t work, nor can it be made to work in the long term.</p>
<p>Look at the work around, a world wide identification system. Just to ensure that something I already purchased and possessed will still be usable in the future.</p>
<p>Along with identifying every customer, every work that is DRMed will not only have to be preserved (a good thing) but also its particular method of DRMing, plus some kind of crack/master key for each and every work, despite how technology may change.</p>
<p>Open formats can be translated. Perhaps in the future PDF and every other format will be deemed archaic. Whoops there goes all the DRMed ebooks. </p>
<p>It just might be me, but I see the digital world on the brink of another revolution in technology, how long can we give any scheme of DRMing? Five years, perhaps ten, is there anyone silly enough to propose that it is at all likely that in fifty years time that anyone will be using even remotely similar software? Or that many of the current publishers will still be in business? </p>
<p>And what in the meantime will be the increase in ebook publication, and if current trends persist even for a few years, how many of them will be locked away in DRM schemes no longer supported?</p>
<p>One aspect of my opposition to DRMing literature is that it is so shortsighted, technologically speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cane</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644169</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644169</guid>
		<description>I saw an owner of a Sony Reader post somewhere that he won't buy from Connect.  Instead he buys in a format he knows he can strip the DRM from and then converts for the Reader.  (I'll not mention any DRM formats!  teleread regulars know what I mean.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw an owner of a Sony Reader post somewhere that he won&#8217;t buy from Connect.  Instead he buys in a format he knows he can strip the DRM from and then converts for the Reader.  (I&#8217;ll not mention any DRM formats!  teleread regulars know what I mean.)</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644161</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.teleread.org/blog/2007/12/02/adobeamazon-drm-snafu-shows-need-for-idpflibrary-alliance-to-back-up-protected-books-current-approaches-are-still-just-lipstick-on-the-drm-pig/#comment-644161</guid>
		<description>I'll never buy DRMed ebooks, partly due to being stung by them early on (bought several ebooks from the palm store, then switched to a device with no reader for it), mostly due to dislike of DRM in general. Even if I can convert the books to non-DRMed formats, I refuse to inflate DRM sales, giving the publishers the impression that people don't mind DRM.

Also, DRMed ebooks are nearly always more expensive than non-DRMed ones, and often more expensive than the hardbacks! Just take a look at Fictionwise's offerings, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll never buy DRMed ebooks, partly due to being stung by them early on (bought several ebooks from the palm store, then switched to a device with no reader for it), mostly due to dislike of DRM in general. Even if I can convert the books to non-DRMed formats, I refuse to inflate DRM sales, giving the publishers the impression that people don&#8217;t mind DRM.</p>
<p>Also, DRMed ebooks are nearly always more expensive than non-DRMed ones, and often more expensive than the hardbacks! Just take a look at Fictionwise&#8217;s offerings, for example.</p>
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